Wow so I've never seen that before, quite long but very good and a great ending. When I temporarily died it was the sadness I felt for the loss of Love for Friends and Family that returned me to life. Check out Sean Manz other videos, I Love his music.
Eunus: cool syncage, but i'm not sure i quite follow. what are you saying with this post?
...i don't know about the rest of you, but something about reading song lyrics just turns me off. nothin personal, of course, but i just lose patience.
Jesus is the devil who fell to earth (so is David Bowie--he even voiced the devil come to think of it in *The Last Temptation*0 God is . . . Jesus and Devil are the dualities of material. Spring and Fall good and evil life and death Beatles + Stones God contains all that, or that is the only way to mythologically explain black holes and the mystery of the universe. Reconcile it and you "beat the game"! That may be what Faust was after too. . .
"A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD creates Human Beings and The Devil".
An All-powerful, All-knowing, without any mistake or error, GOD creates Human Beings and The Devil.
The PARADOX begins with OMNIPOTENCE - If you're omniscient then you know *EVERYTHING* that is going to occur before it occurs.
... and continues to compound through "A single" "omnipotent" "infallible" "GOD". as anything LESS than "A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" is not "GOD" but "a god".
Quid Pro Quo my dear Toure... What's your thoughts?
as i see it, the paradox is in our interpretation, not the concept itself. satan is light-bringer/fire-stealer, hypnosis(i.e. possession) via harmonic sound, and just as good and evil as the god he had the balls to defy, by -in essence- believing he was god.
either way, as i'm slowly accepting, paradox Lies at[to] the heart of so many deeper truths...
i heard somewhere that buddhist monks will not speak our language in temples because the language is inherently deceptive.
i'm considering this discussion in terms of god being the I AM that is all that we are:
omnipotent, omniscient, infallible...
anything all-powerful wouldn't necessarily be automatically all-knowing, but would have the potential to be; to use that power to gain knowledge... anything all-knowing would automatically be infallible, unshakable...
from my facebook:
toure: show me unshakeable faith, and i will show you a closed mind... jake: One can't have unshakable faith. WE all are unshakable faith.
in other news, this interchange stood out to me as the first time i've heard mr kotze use the word "can't"
Although, I really was wondering and questioning those coming more from the general 'organized religion belief/perspective' of those religions that have the "single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" that "creates Human Beings and The Devil" (ex:Christianity/Islam and their various offshoots).
I will flat-out tell you, before venturing down this theological road with you (or anyone interesting in assisting the exploration of the topic, for that matter), that my personal belief system is not mainstream.
I'm also *NOT* out to shoot down anyone's beliefs, I am truly curious about the paradox reconciliation and others thoughts on the subject. (though some challenging questions might arise in any discussion please know in advance that I'm not proselytizing !!)
I was/am wondering in the literal of how someone from those belief systems (with that belief of GOD,Man,Devil..etc.) reconciles "A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" and the resulting paradox that is created by that initial belief when then introducing the associated "creation story" of Human Beings and "The Devil/Satan/Fallen Angels/Evil entities" to the system.
Although I clarified my question... certainly all viewpoints, from any perspective, are most welcome to post on my question!! (it is also all appreciated, BTW!)
i'm not partial to the lyrics being there, you can take em out if you wish. As for the whole pair of ducks, my Dick said it best "Aristotelean Logic is Bullshit" It means our World View is radically insufficient. We have found the surface of the Veil and We examine the fringes, the strange loops and the fray, but we try to rationalize our observations and this is beyond thought. (my current flux, subject to change)
I would generally speaking associate Devil, Evil and Satan to unconsciousness or less-consciousness. God, Good and Heaven are consciousness or more-consciousness.
All are just ebb and flow of Awareness of Self. Less Awareness leads to things with negative polarity while more Awareness things with a positive polarity.
Hell is the pain of being separate, lost and not Knowing your true united Self.
Noting of course that All is still full perfect and eternal KKonsciousness, regardless of good or evil. This is just convenience of 3D speech and thinking as we go though the process of moving beyond contradiction and into new dimensions where all becomes crystal clear.
Jake...seems your views are similar to "The Law of One"...you agree? http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/books-free-online/23-the-law-of-one-study-guide
its many (pagans) ... it's two (god & devil) ... it's three (father, son, holy spirit) ... no it's one ... it can't all just be numbers, that's a self referencing system, a labyrinth
So Jake, would I be (somewhat) correct in interpreting your comments to mean that your particular view is that the unified totality of EVERYTHING is GOD (of which, much like DNA in a single cell is both the cell and the code of the entire being, we are part of the totality AND 'the totality itself' in one being) and we are 'close' to GOD when we can consciously experience the life processes taking place around us (be in awe of creation and 'in the moment' - experiencing the fractals through the syncs and 'the love') and we experience "The Devil" (not as a being but a state of consciousness) when we consciously 'disconnect' from that unified act of consciousness creation and focus on things that harm others or impede their state of conscious connection?
Woefully lacking the language neceesary to express it, but would that be close to what you are attempting to convey?
The crux of my research right now is focused on material. And so a reconciliation is warranted while we as humans are both spirit and material. To deny material, is to not live. Can one find enlightenment in substance--or must one transcend material and substance to know God?
So the question that I poke around is, can one know the ultimate truth without tilting the pinball game.
This is a game after all, yes?
Our culture is obsessed with material. We've forgotten the lives behind the stuff. Here is my lesson: 2oz of honey is equal to one bee's life. So?
We need a new frigging world order--One that is built upon the value of life and not stuff. More, Better, Cheaper, Faster . . . is killing us. Our stuff is cheap, crude and disposable and so are the lives connected to it.
And after that rant, I guess you can see that I'm pretty fully invested in this stupid pinball game.
Personally I don't believe we can fully withdraw ourselves from "GOD" as in my belief system we are part and parcel thereof... but I do think we can turn ourselves from the beneficent side to the maleficent side (and vice versa).
And I don't think this is a game, per se, as I don't see it occuring with "winners" and "losers" - which there must be in any game. Sure, for our existence we attempt to set the rules, like a game, but are those rules in harmony with "the purpose"? If they're not they become our entrapment, our umbrella shielding us from the light of the ALL, so to speak. Under it, we only play-act and pretend to be GODs. Without our self created shield we actually are.
I feel "The ultimate truth", as you term it, is already known to each of us. Depending on our "conscious connection to IT" we can see IT/know IT and then also depending our "conscious connection to IT" we can not see IT/know IT.
Our spiritual being knows and our material being feels. When the two are in alignment with "the purposes" of life (which is not much more than living, learning, experiencing, teaching, perpetuating, loving) we can know it and feel it and through the meatsack we inhabit we experience it.
hmmm. some thoughts: I use "game" loosely. Actually life is more like a play, or novel. It's a ride, but not fun (loaded word cuz this fun is suffering too) if you aren't "playing" along. (This is the only way I can begin to explain the synchronicity phenomenon, that, or we all have ingested far too much bong water.) I don't use words like belief system. I think I agree with Socrates in stating for the record that "I know that I know nothing".
By my research, "purpose" indicates doing and "meaning" denotes being. The purpose of life is to breed and die. That's it. Meaning comes from The Story. Meaning is something we give it.
We literally came from the stars and therefore we're one with the source. Our scientific cosmology begins prior to the big band w/ a singularity that divided and became the visible universe. This energy that is everything is the thing that we are using the noun "God" as a pointer to, or not. Can we truly know? Isn't this the answer that lies on the other side of Persephone and the veil? Wonder why so many middle age men sleep with young girls? It's not just sex, right. They want to know Persephone's secrets. She is the bride of Hades after all. She knows the underworld. You think some of these young girls represent a type?
Anway, My parents had a big bang too. prior to this, I was nothing. How do you get something from nothing? Catholicism and inexperience with birth control helps. But then upon conception, (makes me think of God, the author) I was something. This united egg and sperm then divided and my one cell became my universe of cells.
So we fell to earth for a reason right? To willingly participate in the joyous sufferings? Or not.
Or, our consciousness is a strange mistake--which has pushed us away from the web of life and has made US the aliens. Life is under attack from the machines in the Matrix. We are the machines, perhaps.
purpose? I find meaning in the story. right now the story is about wonderland and dream. be well
True... Belief System is not the correct terms for what I was meaning. "My thoughts on the matter at this particular moment in time" would be far more accurate, in retrospect! ... as those thoughts seemingly evolve with every new experience! Sometimes barely at all and sometimes quite radically!
I too hold to the "I KNOW nothing" way of thinking and yet I still know that part of me, or part of what I am, does know. It, that part that knows, whatever that part may be, from time to time, likes to screw with the thinking part of ME by showing it that thinking part that it does know - knowing full well that the thinking part of me will never figure out how while 'I am' in the meatsack!!! So within me, the thinker part tries to remain open to any new evolving ideas. (after re-reading that...must be the bong water!! :)
Actually, come to think of it, that may be the 'exact HOW' of the way they evolve... by knowing that I really don't "know", in the thinking/logical/reasoning part of me, I tuly try not to hold anything regarding these philosophical and theological topics so dogmatically as to think "that's 100% it - that's the exact answer".
And though it appears we've evolved the discussion (excellent! and happy to experience it with you! Part of "talking to GOD", for me, includes the discussions that ME/WE have with each other!) as a side note in the moment: I would still like to hear from someone, anyone, at anytime in this discussion, that has in their thinking reconciled the GOD,Man,Devil Paradox mentioned earlier!
“But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?” ~ Mark Twain
ReplyDeleteWow so I've never seen that before, quite long but very good and a great ending. When I temporarily died it was the sadness I felt for the loss of Love for Friends and Family that returned me to life. Check out Sean Manz other videos, I Love his music.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot Randal Flag saying... Please to met you Lloyd, hope you guess my name.
ReplyDeleteThe Devil and GOD Paradox:
ReplyDelete"A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD creates Human Beings and The Devil".
I'd love to hear from anyone, blogmeister or reader, that actually believes in "GOD and Satan/The Devil" and how you reconcile it.
~SE~
Eunus: cool syncage, but i'm not sure i quite follow. what are you saying with this post?
ReplyDelete...i don't know about the rest of you, but something about reading song lyrics just turns me off. nothin personal, of course, but i just lose patience.
SE: where's the paradox?
i'm in the mood to play devil's advocate
Jesus is the devil who fell to earth
ReplyDelete(so is David Bowie--he even voiced the devil come to think of it in *The Last Temptation*0
God is . . .
Jesus and Devil are the dualities of material.
Spring and Fall
good and evil
life and death
Beatles + Stones
God contains all that,
or that is the only way to mythologically explain black holes and the mystery of the universe.
Reconcile it and you "beat the game"!
That may be what Faust was after too. . .
Toure,
ReplyDelete;)
"A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD creates Human Beings and The Devil".
An All-powerful, All-knowing, without any mistake or error, GOD creates Human Beings and The Devil.
The PARADOX begins with OMNIPOTENCE -
If you're omniscient then you know *EVERYTHING* that is going to occur before it occurs.
... and continues to compound through "A single" "omnipotent" "infallible" "GOD".
as anything LESS than "A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" is not "GOD" but "a god".
Quid Pro Quo my dear Toure...
What's your thoughts?
~SE~
...make that
ReplyDelete"The PARADOX begins with omniSCIENCE"
"I guess The Devil messed with my fingers whilst I was typing!!"
~SE~
SE: thanks for indulging.
ReplyDeleteas i see it, the paradox is in our interpretation, not the concept itself. satan is light-bringer/fire-stealer, hypnosis(i.e. possession) via harmonic sound, and just as good and evil as the god he had the balls to defy, by -in essence- believing he was god.
either way, as i'm slowly accepting, paradox Lies at[to] the heart of so many deeper truths...
i heard somewhere that buddhist monks will not speak our language in temples because the language is inherently deceptive.
i'm considering this discussion in terms of god being the I AM that is all that we are:
ReplyDeleteomnipotent, omniscient, infallible...
anything all-powerful wouldn't necessarily be automatically all-knowing, but would have the potential to be; to use that power to gain knowledge... anything all-knowing would automatically be infallible, unshakable...
from my facebook:
toure: show me unshakeable faith, and i will show you a closed mind...
jake: One can't have unshakable faith. WE all are unshakable faith.
in other news, this interchange stood out to me as the first time i've heard mr kotze use the word "can't"
Toure,
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Although, I really was wondering and questioning those coming more from the general 'organized religion belief/perspective' of those religions that have the "single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" that "creates Human Beings and The Devil" (ex:Christianity/Islam and their various offshoots).
I will flat-out tell you, before venturing down this theological road with you (or anyone interesting in assisting the exploration of the topic, for that matter), that my personal belief system is not mainstream.
I'm also *NOT* out to shoot down anyone's beliefs, I am truly curious about the paradox reconciliation and others thoughts on the subject. (though some challenging questions might arise in any discussion please know in advance that I'm not proselytizing !!)
I was/am wondering in the literal of how someone from those belief systems (with that belief of GOD,Man,Devil..etc.) reconciles "A single omnipotent, omniscient, infallible GOD" and the resulting paradox that is created by that initial belief when then introducing the associated "creation story" of Human Beings and "The Devil/Satan/Fallen Angels/Evil entities" to the system.
~SE~
Although I clarified my question... certainly all viewpoints, from any perspective, are most welcome to post on my question!! (it is also all appreciated, BTW!)
ReplyDelete~SE~
i'm not partial to the lyrics being there, you can take em out if you wish. As for the whole pair of ducks, my Dick said it best "Aristotelean Logic is Bullshit" It means our World View is radically insufficient. We have found the surface of the Veil and We examine the fringes, the strange loops and the fray, but we try to rationalize our observations and this is beyond thought. (my current flux, subject to change)
ReplyDeleteI would generally speaking associate Devil, Evil and Satan to unconsciousness or less-consciousness. God, Good and Heaven are consciousness or more-consciousness.
ReplyDeleteAll are just ebb and flow of Awareness of Self. Less Awareness leads to things with negative polarity while more Awareness things with a positive polarity.
Hell is the pain of being separate, lost and not Knowing your true united Self.
Noting of course that All is still full perfect and eternal KKonsciousness, regardless of good or evil. This is just convenience of 3D speech and thinking as we go though the process of moving beyond contradiction and into new dimensions where all becomes crystal clear.
Love
Jake...seems your views are similar to "The Law of One"...you agree?
ReplyDeletehttp://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/books-free-online/23-the-law-of-one-study-guide
Sounds similar from the blurb.
ReplyDeleteSee you have your own Blog.
Great stuff.
Be well
its many (pagans) ... it's two (god & devil) ... it's three (father, son, holy spirit) ... no it's one ... it can't all just be numbers, that's a self referencing system, a labyrinth
ReplyDeleteWhat if it's an imaginary number? LoL
It's about moving beyond concept.
ReplyDeleteGod is not an idea or thought.
These are just pointers towards the eternally present and already manifested Self we All are.
There's nothing to figure out or debate.
Just a realization of what you already are.
So Jake,
ReplyDeletewould I be (somewhat) correct in interpreting your comments to mean that your particular view is that the unified totality of EVERYTHING is GOD (of which, much like DNA in a single cell is both the cell and the code of the entire being, we are part of the totality AND 'the totality itself' in one being) and we are 'close' to GOD when we can consciously experience the life processes taking place around us (be in awe of creation and 'in the moment' - experiencing the fractals through the syncs and 'the love') and we experience "The Devil" (not as a being but a state of consciousness) when we consciously 'disconnect' from that unified act of consciousness creation and focus on things that harm others or impede their state of conscious connection?
Woefully lacking the language neceesary to express it, but would that be close to what you are attempting to convey?
~SE~
Well said SE.
ReplyDeleteThe crux of my research right now is focused on material.
And so a reconciliation is warranted while we as humans are both spirit and material. To deny material, is to not live. Can one find enlightenment in substance--or must one transcend material and substance to know God?
So the question that I poke around is, can one know the ultimate truth without tilting the pinball game.
This is a game after all, yes?
Our culture is obsessed with material. We've forgotten the lives behind the stuff. Here is my lesson: 2oz of honey is equal to one bee's life. So?
We need a new frigging world order--One that is built upon the value of life and not stuff.
More, Better, Cheaper, Faster . . . is killing us.
Our stuff is cheap, crude and disposable and so are the lives connected to it.
And after that rant, I guess you can see that I'm pretty fully invested in this stupid pinball game.
nice discussion.
ISH,
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't believe we can fully withdraw ourselves from "GOD" as in my belief system we are part and parcel thereof... but I do think we can turn ourselves from the beneficent side to the maleficent side (and vice versa).
And I don't think this is a game, per se, as I don't see it occuring with "winners" and "losers" - which there must be in any game. Sure, for our existence we attempt to set the rules, like a game, but are those rules in harmony with "the purpose"? If they're not they become our entrapment, our umbrella shielding us from the light of the ALL, so to speak. Under it, we only play-act and pretend to be GODs. Without our self created shield we actually are.
I feel "The ultimate truth", as you term it, is already known to each of us. Depending on our "conscious connection to IT" we can see IT/know IT and then also depending our "conscious connection to IT" we can not see IT/know IT.
Our spiritual being knows and our material being feels. When the two are in alignment with "the purposes" of life (which is not much more than living, learning, experiencing, teaching, perpetuating, loving) we can know it and feel it and through the meatsack we inhabit we experience it.
~SE~
One (sort of) shield example (and something to think about)...
ReplyDelete"Sure I'll help you out for $20 bucks or a case of beer"
even...
"Sure I'll help you out"..."helping you makes me feel good."
Assisting/aiding, something that *should* be inherent to the "ONE purpose" is usually done on condition of personal benefit.
~SE~
hmmm.
ReplyDeletesome thoughts:
I use "game" loosely. Actually life is more like a play, or novel. It's a ride, but not fun (loaded word cuz this fun is suffering too) if you aren't "playing" along. (This is the only way I can begin to explain the synchronicity phenomenon, that, or we all have ingested far too much bong water.)
I don't use words like belief system.
I think I agree with Socrates in stating for the record that "I know that I know nothing".
By my research, "purpose" indicates doing and "meaning" denotes being. The purpose of life is to breed and die. That's it.
Meaning comes from The Story. Meaning is something we give it.
We literally came from the stars and therefore we're one with the source. Our scientific cosmology begins prior to the big band w/ a singularity that divided and became the visible universe. This energy that is everything is the thing that we are using the noun "God" as a pointer to, or not. Can we truly know? Isn't this the answer that lies on the other side of Persephone and the veil? Wonder why so many middle age men sleep with young girls? It's not just sex, right. They want to know Persephone's secrets. She is the bride of Hades after all. She knows the underworld. You think some of these young girls represent a type?
Anway,
My parents had a big bang too. prior to this, I was nothing. How do you get something from nothing? Catholicism and inexperience with birth control helps. But then upon conception, (makes me think of God, the author) I was something. This united egg and sperm then divided and my one cell became my universe of cells.
So we fell to earth for a reason right? To willingly participate in the joyous sufferings? Or not.
Or, our consciousness is a strange mistake--which has pushed us away from the web of life and has made US the aliens. Life is under attack from the machines in the Matrix. We are the machines, perhaps.
purpose?
I find meaning in the story.
right now the story is about wonderland and dream.
be well
Thank you ISH!
ReplyDeleteTrue... Belief System is not the correct terms for what I was meaning. "My thoughts on the matter at this particular moment in time" would be far more accurate, in retrospect! ... as those thoughts seemingly evolve with every new experience! Sometimes barely at all and sometimes quite radically!
I too hold to the "I KNOW nothing" way of thinking and yet I still know that part of me, or part of what I am, does know. It, that part that knows, whatever that part may be, from time to time, likes to screw with the thinking part of ME by showing it that thinking part that it does know - knowing full well that the thinking part of me will never figure out how while 'I am' in the meatsack!!! So within me, the thinker part tries to remain open to any new evolving ideas.
(after re-reading that...must be the bong water!! :)
Actually, come to think of it, that may be the 'exact HOW' of the way they evolve... by knowing that I really don't "know", in the thinking/logical/reasoning part of me, I tuly try not to hold anything regarding these philosophical and theological topics so dogmatically as to think "that's 100% it - that's the exact answer".
And though it appears we've evolved the discussion (excellent! and happy to experience it with you! Part of "talking to GOD", for me, includes the discussions that ME/WE have with each other!) as a side note in the moment: I would still like to hear from someone, anyone, at anytime in this discussion, that has in their thinking reconciled the GOD,Man,Devil Paradox mentioned earlier!
~SE~